Walking down the street today, I saw a young white boxer. Its owners were college students, probably sorority girls, because this street is where all the sorority houses are. It was about a four month old dog, plucky and charming as we all expect boxers to be.
However, we all know that white boxers are a much pilloried color in the boxer world. The AKC standard says: “White markings, if present, should be of such distribution as to enhance the dog’s appearance, but may not exceed one-third of the entire coat.”
This color is not encouraged at all, so why is this color still so common in boxers?
Well, this page tells us why. Not all boxers have white on them. They are solid brindle or fawn with black masks. There are alos some that have just a little white on them. However, these dogs do not tend to do well in the ring.
In the ring, a dog with white markings that enhance the color is much preferred. These dogs are called flashy boxers.
If you breed a flashy to a solid, you will get half flashy and half solid, so half of the puppies in your litters will have the good show markings.
To increse the likelihood of producing a lot more flashy boxers, the flashies are bred to other flashies. However, the flashy boxer does not breed true. It is the result of incomplete dominance between solid white boxers and solid brindle and fawn boxers.
When you breed two flashies, the probabilities of inheritance tell us that you will get one quarter solids, half flashies, and one quarter whites. The only way to get 100 percent flashies in a litter is to breed a white boxer to a solid. This practice is frowned upon, but you cannot tell me that some breeders use white boxers to produce flashies.
The need to produce flashy boxers almost guarantees the existence of the disqualifying white color.
This white color is associated with deafness in boxers, and a white boxer could introduce this tendency into any solid or flashy offspring.
I think these problems would be solved if the show ring began to even more strictly penalize white markings and end the desire to produce flashy boxers. This would mean that solid colored dogs would have the upper hand, and the white dogs would no longer be a byproduct of breeding the best show boxers. The standard allows for solid colored dogs. It does not penalize them when they are shown against flashies, but in practical experience, the flashies dominate the show ring in this country.
Interestingly, many dogs of the foundation stock of the boxer were predominantly white:
Update: This post is closed for comments. I get tons of comments repeating very easily refuted talking points, and I’m tired of refuting them.
Hmm,
my understanding was that the particular deafness associated with white boxers was due to lack of the appropriate type of cells located in the middle? ear. The tiny hairs needed for hearing arise from cells that may be few or absent in dogs with extreme lack of pigment. The “cleaner” (less ticked the white and so fewer spots on the skin) the more risk there is of deafness.
If I was better organized I would have the paper handy.
If thats the case I’m not sure that whites would increase the risk in non-white offspring, unless the continued selection for “clean” un-ticked white markings translates to poor development of the hairs needed for hearing.
Dirty white, heavily ticked dogs rarely have blue eyes, clean whites with pink skin often have a blue eye if the white touches or surrounds the eye. Boxers are one of those breeds in which white or white faced dogs often have blue eyes while the colored dogs rarely do.
If the occurrence of white over the ears in certain breeds or strains is directly linked to increased risk of deafness, then penalizing these dogs for having excess white is more than simple conceit about a cosmetic trait.
There are a lot of breeds in which white and normal hearing seem to be able to co-exist but I have noted that they generally have excellent skin pigment or are white/cream type dogs. Pink skinned dogs like most white boxers, are also at increased risk of sun burn and skin cancer.
http://www.cinemaboxers.com/whites.htm Deafness in colored boxers from breeding whites.
“Please note however that not all white dogs are white because of a lack of pigment cells. Some like West Highlands and Poodles just have extremely diluted pigmentation; they have a full complement of pigment cells, so are not at risk of being deaf. Biscuit shading, commonly around the ears and along the back can distinguish this form of white coat. ”
–http://www.americanboxerclub.org/white-deafness.html
Those “white” dogs are actually diluted yellows to reds (e/e).
Thank you for the links and info
On later research I found that only 2 percent of colored boxers are ever affected by deafness as a result of being bred with whites.
Hmmm maybe not everyone who wants a dog is concerned with showing them. Maybe some people want a dog for the wonderful companion that they are and the color of the coat doesn’t matter at all to them. I know it sounds crazy not to want to make money or get recognition off of your best friend, but you can’t show boxers without docking the ears either. I wouldn’t deliberately alter the appearance of my puppy just for personal gain. But, to each his own I guess. I can say this though: I have come across a few white boxers in my lifetime and all of them have been loyal, loving creatures that their owners wouldn’t give for all the show dog nonsense in the world. Obviously, I am one of those owners :).
I don’t want dogs to show either.
However, I don’t want a deaf one.
thats intresting
i think white boxers are gorgeous! there is nothing wrong with them at all. i’m thinking about buying one. i dont understand what is wrong with people who make up problems about these beautiful creatures. The world is messed. Anyways thats all i had to say .
What’s wrong with them?
Well, the gene that causes them is associated with deafness. It also introduces deafness into the brindle and fawn dogs that are crossed with whites. http://www.boxer-rescue-la.com/Library/stories/deaf_white_boxers.htm
I’m not making up problems. These are real problems.
They are a bi-product of breeding for the flashy-marked brindle and fawn boxers that do so well in the show ring in this country. In Europe, the preference is for more solid colored boxers.
Yes, there were white boxers in the early history of the breed. Some of the foundation dogs were white, like the Alaunt dogs of yore. However, in boxers, white is seen as a deleterious color.
I have a white boxer and he is wonderful. He is not deaf (just selective hearing) and he makes me smile 100 times a day. He does however have a lot of pigment spots on his skin that shows up when he is wet. I dont think anyone should ever get a dog with the intention of making money off them. ie: breeding, showing, fighting. You should treat them like children and raise them for free. Deaf dogs can be trained and should not be killed just because of it. Would you abort your baby because he/she was going to be deaf??
I’m not a woman. I don’t have that right. But I would respect that right. Don’t drag this into an stupid argument over abortion. I’m very pro-choice. If a woman wanted to abort a baby that could have serious issues, I would totally support her right. Would I? Well, I’m not a woman. If you’re one of those pro-life loons, please go elsewhere.
I think you’re quite naive if you think dogs should be raised as children– because they are separate species from Homo sapiens and are an entirely different being. To assume that dogs are happy when coddled and treated as we would treat our children is to do them a great injustice. I appreciate dogs as dogs, not as child substitutes. I never refer to my dogs as my children. It’s one little thing that irks me about so many people and their dysfunctional relationships with dogs.
As for white boxers– they are bi-product of breeding for flashy markings. There may have been many white boxers in the early days of the breed.
I would suggest that you not breed from your dog. The boxer clubs are very clear on color– and I usually ignore most dog breed clubs. However, breeding white boxers increases the likelihood for deafness in both colored and white boxers.
My suggestion is that you read a few books on dogs.
hi all there is nothing wrong with white boxers i have one and he is the sweetest dog iv ever known and just because they cant be shown dont mean no one wants them as a pet so dont be so stupid to think its all about showing your dog as he or she should be a pet before a show dog
It’s not about that.
It’s that breeding for white increases the risk of deafness in boxers. Deaf boxers are often white or are solid colored dogs that carry the gene for white (flashies).
I don’t think you get exactly what I’m saying here. Individual dogs are fine, but this has nothing to do with dog shows. I’m against breeding merle to merle or dapple to dapple because you can produce dogs that have no eyes or ear canals (and sometimes no anuses). And for that same reason I oppose purposely breeding white boxers, and I’m glad the modern boxer societies and clubs have recognized this problem. If they were smarter than that, they would be in favor of producing more solid brindles and fawns and doing away with breeding flashies, which can produce whites.
BTW, there may be nothing wrong with your dog, but breeding white boxers statistically harms the breed’s health. I don’t know why this is so difficult to understand.
I have a white bitch of 18mths. She has gone to be de-sexed today as I have no intention of breeding dogs. Saying this I have had 2 white boxers in a row (1 male and now 1 female) and I have had no trouble with either deafness, heart problems or hip problems. My previous dog, Boo, lived for 15 years trouble free and I’m now hoping that Scout will also have that kind of longevity.
I have never actually seen a white boxer with any of the described health problems or disabilities- and I’ve seen quite a few.
My feeling is that most of this bad press about white boxers is propaganda put forward by breeders because of their dislike of the colour type. Allow registration of the white variety I say. Considering 1/5 of all pups are predominantly white! Euthanasia should be outlawed- along with cropping, docking and de-dewclawing.
Thoughts?
In the US, it is closer to 1/4 are born white, because we breed for flashy marked dogs.
I don’t think it’s propaganda that breeding for white does lead to deafness in some dogs. Not only has this been found in boxers, but it has been found in bull terriers (why we have a colored variety of bull terrier in the US), and Dalmatians (and others). About 18-20 percent of white boxers are deaf, and what’s more breeding for white increases the chances of getting deaf ones in the colored dogs.
I’ve never known a boxer to live that long. Consider yourself lucky. My golden-boxer cross lived to the age of 11, before she died of at the age of 11 due to osteosarcoma. Cancer is a huge problem in boxers (and goldens, too), and I do worry about them. Actually, I find the boxer had a more consistently docile temperament these days than the golden retriever does. They are excellent family dogs.
I have nothing against individual owners owning dogs of any color, and I think kennel clubs often perpetuate stupid practices, like euthanizing patched Dal puppies, ridgeless ridgebacks, and white boxers and GSD’s. I am very much opposed to breed club propaganda as you mention, and you can find copious examples on this blog. That said, I think they have a point here.
However, I do think the breeders of boxers should pay more attention to this. The preferred color in the US is flashy-marked brindle or fawn. This color does not breed true.
If the breed clubs would select for more solid colored boxers, the whites would disappear on their own. So really, the breed clubs shouldn’t complain about white boxers– they created them!
Whites were in the early history of the breed. In fact, it was the preferred color, if you look at early photographs.
http://www.ukboxerdogs.co.uk/history.html
I certainly don’t think white boxers are as much a problem as merle-to-merle bred dogs (which,are often all white and often have no eyes, ear canals, or anuses). Breeding merle or dapple (in dachshunds) to other merles and dapples is pretty close to animal cruelty.
My half boxer had a her ears, tail, and dewclaws.
In a weird way, although these dogs are nothing like what I’m used to, I really do like them as pets.
For children, I consider them one of my top breeds. Golden retrievers used to be, but they’ve got some bad temperament issues that haven’t been worked out.
Now, I love golden retrievers, and I have one. I consider them my breed, but I know how to find one that is healthy and doesn’t have temperament problems. The average person needs to be careful when choosing this breed as numbskulls have been breeding them, and their temperaments are not what they used to be. I would be very careful if I suggested that someone asked about golden retrievers.
But if I were going to recommend a good family dog to someone else, I’d suggest the boxer without hesitation.
Thanks for your thoughts on that… and yeah- Boo lived to a ripe old age and it took a twisted bowel to bring him undone. The pic at the top of your blog of the reclining white boxer is the spitting image btw.
Their temperament as a breed is fantastic and my kids love their dogs and vice versa.
Judging by what I’ve read I need to do a little more research into the white colouring – as I had read that white is actually the dominant colour if allowed to continue in the breed. And that, yes as you state, the early boxers where predominantly whiter than today.
My main point is that whites should be recognised by the clubs and associations as a pure bred, as the other colours are, and not an abheration. Deafness and congenital problems are also present in the other coloured dogs and not just the whites. The percentages are not that different (especially in hip and heart issues). Deafness in all dogs sits at around 1 in 20- so I guess that’s the major difference.
None of this should prevent showing healthy whites in the ring tho. A dog is a dog is a dog.
Your point of not interbreeding exact matches is a valid one and I agree entirely. This doesn’t seem to stop breeders from breeding from the same bloodlines, however- maybe genetic testing needs to be introduced so that breeders are forced outside their own gene pools in order to avoid adverse mutation.
Just a thought- and once again thanks for yours.
http://www.boxerbuddies.org/Boxer%20Info/white_boxers.htm
Apparently, in the US, up to 30 percent of white boxers are deaf.
This includes data from the people who crossed boxers with naturally bob-tailed corgis (and yes, they used a white boxer).
http://www.steynmere.com/GENETICS.html#articles
The first boxer I owned was fawn colored and could have qualified as a show dog except that he had a bent stubber. I am not saying that this was the purpose for purchasing him because it was not. Titan lived to the ripe old age of 13 before I had him put down (hip displasia). I WANTED a white boxer and purchased one. She has a black/brown ring around her right eye. I then purchased a white boxer/pit and he has a brown/black spot 2 inches above his tail. I have bred the two dogs two times and will not breed them anymore because of the health of the female. Her first litter she had 4 puppies, all in good health and all pure white. Her second litter (just a month ago) she had 8 puppies, 2 all white with brown/black rings around their eyes, 5 pure white with one black eye and one blue eye on them all, and 1 all white with a brown/black ring around his eye (like his mother) and a brown/black spot just above his tail (just like his father). All 12 of these puppies/dogs were born healthy, with no deformities and each and every one of them could hear. Maybe its the 3/4 boxer-1/4 pit mix that made the exception to the rule. Each one was and is so adorable. I even kept one from the last litter. I have people calling me asking me if they are ready to go yet. So…there are people out there who DO want whites. This was the last time that I will breed dogs because of a disability and I am going to miss it terribly. The AKC and other clubs who consider whites or too much white on a boxer is a rediculous ruling. Maybe one day a pure white boxer (mind you…who is deaf) will win the Westminster Best In Show. Now wouldn’t that tickle a few peoples’ fancies. God bless you all.
1. Anecdotal evidence does not negate the scientific (and peer-reviewed) evidence that deafness is associated with the white coloration. Not all Neapolitan mastiffs are low thyroid, but their body type increases the chance that they will be low thyroid.
2. I don’t care what people want. People want pugs with no muzzles and chihuahuas that will fit in the palm of your hand. Responsible breeders know when to say no.
3. The AKC can be a ridiculous organization, but every once in a while, they get something right.
4. Whites were the preferred color at the beginning of the breed– just as they were with bull terriers. But then both boxer breeders and bull terrier breeders realized that breeding for that white coloration was causing deafness (and why the English white terrier– one of the bull terrier’s ancestors– went extinct). So they introduced the colored variety in bull terriers and required that the boxer have less white on it. Of course, if the boxer breeders had been smart, they would have said no to flashy marked dogs, and that would have stopped the white boxer.
Well- I actually don’t feel you should push any colour over another. What a ridiculous thing. You’re messing with things that can only result in degenerative conditions when you limit the gene sharing to a few dogs. Why not just have a “breed” and forget about colour.
People are freekin stupid sometimes!
White boxers as a consequence of “normal” breeding are fine! I agree that if you breed for a colour you’ll run into issues.
Nuff said.
Desexing went fine btw. Tho there was a urinary tract issue afterwards due to the fact we listened to the breeder’s advice and had her desexed after her first season. The veterinary was aghast and said that she should have been done before her first season.
Who to believe?
Dunno
So I take it that this person is the hitler of the dog world. For someone to say why do they Still exist is pure ignorance. I guess the akc is the bible of the dog world. The problem most people have is they are confused about one main point, albino boxer and white boxers. There is a differance people. The albino Boxer commonly has the problems discused here. As stated in an earlier comment some people have these dogs as compainions not as money makers.
I would never advocate killing them. I just don’t think they should be bred.
I do believe we have a responsibility to selectively breed for health. It may be “eugenics,” but it’s a lot better than the dog show eugenics that currently exists.
I don’t believe dogs should be money makers.
[…] So, next, I heard she was an American Bulldog/Boxer mix like this little sweetheart here. Well yes, this sweet little one does look like my girlah but, in my humble opinion, there is no American Bulldog in that dog. What I see is all Boxer and unfortunately, because of the color, everyone thinks the White Boxer is not a Boxer. Why? Because many of them are killed immediately after birth, some are born deaf –which causes them to have an even goofier look — and for show purposes, a pure white boxer is not recognized by the American Kennel Club. Unfortunately, White Boxers are often used for whelping flashy Boxers. […]
I tried posting 2X before (in December) and my postings were never accepted..
I did not use profanity, vulgarity, or any other normally unacceptable thing…
My comments were both factual and on topic for this forum.
Just because they don’t support the view of retrieverman they were disallowed?
So much for this being an open forum.
I never said 2 white boxers SHOULD be bred together, I only left proof (equal to any other on this site) that there has not been enough study on white boxers to conclude one way or the other.
Anecdotal evidence based on Dalmatians is not proof of anything not related to Dalmatians…
Apples to Apples my friends…
The study done on ACTUAL white Boxers only included 25 dogs…. 25!!!
This is hardly the whole gene pool.. and all dogs were provided by the same kennel if I am not mistaken…. not scientific enough to be called definitive by a long shot.
Again, I don’t advocate breeding two white Boxers together… but there’s no reason to euthanize them either.
And even if deafness were a result of being white, there is no reason to euthanize them for that as they are still able to carry on a normal life.
I would not let a deaf dog run off lead near any roadways, but then of all my white Boxers, I have never had a deaf one….
In fact, I have yet to meet someone with a deaf white Boxer…
Please allow this post, as there’s nothing in it irrelevant to the topic here.
Eric
http://americanboxerclub.org/white-deafness.html Relevant information
“As to deafness, the genetic basis of white in Boxers is the same as in Dalmatians, albeit without the ticking factor to give the spots. In the UK the incidence of deafness in Dalmatians is about 5% bilaterally deaf and 13% unilaterally deaf, total affected 18%. In the States according to Strain the figures are somewhat higher, 8% bilateral and 22% unilateral, total affected 30%. I do not know of any good figures for Boxers but it would be reasonable to believe that the incidence is similar. Only the bilaterally deaf Boxers would be recognised of course; under 10%. ”
You were not approved because you had inaccurate information, which I have refuted elsewhere.
Cattanach is the fellow who bred the naturally bob-tailed Boxers (not some crank): http://www.steynmere.com/CV.html