In a mahogany dog, the red is so intense that it almost doesn't look real.
I love this color, even though it is really frowned upon in the show ring. In some mahoganies, the dogs don’t have the lighter breeches coming off the hindquarters. This dog, however, does have lighter-colored breeches.
This is actually the rarest color in the golden retriever, not the so-called “white” ones. These dogs used to be relatively common in the field-bred goldens, although they certainly did not make up the majority of the population. The golden-reds, tawny golds, and the copper-golds made up the majority of the field dogs.
The first dual champion in the breed, Dual Ch. Balcombe Boy, a dog bred by Lord Harcourt, was of this color. He would never be shown today.
This is the color that most people associate with Irish setters, and that’s the source of this color in goldens. Irish setters, both black and red, were a common outcross for the wavy-coated retriever landrace, and the 1st Baron Tweedmouth, used at least two Irish setters (in British parlance, “red setters”) in his breeding program.
I hope you enjoyed this picture, and I hope you understand that this mahogany color is probably close to being extinct in the golden retriever. I’d hate it if it disappeared entirely.
This dog is darker than the Irish setter-golden crosses, which is really amazing.
I really wish we’d appreciate this color more in our breeding programs– even if it means ignoring the current caprices and fashion in the breed.
I agree that this is one of the most beautiful goldens I have seen, and the darker colour and I also prefer the sleeker, less boxy look, not even necessarily for a hunting dog, but just because it is pleasing to the eye.
(I actually discovered your website while looking for history of the flatcoat, which is my prefered breed. I don’t own one yet, but hope to within a few years. I also am into biology, and find your dog genetics fascinating! And I look forward to more blog entries :)
I also prefer that type in the golden. They move better, may have less joint problems, and are much better looking (and I’m not even that concerned with looks).
My first golden was very much like the dog in the post, except she was a tawny gold color with flat, straight hair. She would’ve made a nice flat-coat but for her color.
Most of the original goldens looked more like this. Here are some goldens of show and field breeding that made up one of the founding lines of golden, the Noranbys:
Oh my, this doggie is downright gorgeous to me. We had a female red-golden retriever — Whitney — with a pointed nose — and so now I search for another just like her. How could someone not love this look? It changed me from a total cat person to being totally smitten with a DOG; perhaps also her personality and nature had something to do with this obsession. She was sort of like a deer in some ways. I didn’t even want her at first but fell in love during a stormy night when she was afraid.
Does the pointed nose mean she was a mix, like with maybe a Collie?
Collie/golden mixes (ones that are proven, not identified in animal shelters) are almost always black or black and tan. One of these dogs is not a golden collie: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/gollie.htm
Collies that are sable are not the same color as the golden retriever. It’s an entirely different gene that causes the sable color.
The pointed muzzle sometimes pops up in field line goldens. That’s probably what your dog was– not all goldens have Newfoundland or Labrador-style muzzles.
Now, in Shelties and Border collies the golden color does exist as it does in the golden retriever. In which case, it is possible to produce “golden collies” that are golden.
The dog in my avatar is Ch. Noranby Diana, one of the top golden bitches of the 1930’s. She’s not an Irish setter or “golden Irish.” She was of the preferred color for the breed in those early days.
Mr. Retrieverman – I just now found your reply to me from two years ago; sorry that I lost track and missed it. Really appreciate your site.
I love this color! Why is this frowned upon???
I’ve been looking for breeders who have puppies that will wind up being dark red in coloration, the darker the better, but it seems like all anyone wants these days are the white goldens.
Would you happen to know any breeders that specialize in or at least have a few mahogany goldens?
Thanks!
In the AKC standard, gold was never defined. The color just had to be rich and lustrous. So mahoganies could pass muster.
In the British KC standard, any shade of gold or cream was allowed in the 1936 standard revision. Then in that standard, red and mahogany were defined as “not golden.” These haven’t been accepted colors for goldens in Europe for a long time. In the 1936 revision, the height of the dogs was lowered and the standard began to call for more bone in the dog. Essentially, the dogs began to change from thoroughbred race horses into Charolais cattle.
In the AKC and UKC ring, you do see some show goldens that are this very dark color. However, in the latest revision of the AKC standard, the language in color specifically discounts very dark or very pale coloration. Of course, for a long time, the tendency in show line goldens in the AKC ring has been to load them with hair (which is the opposite of what working gun dog should have). Now, they are becoming loaded with bone and are becoming lighter in color (although not “almost white.”)
It’s next to impossible to find a mahogany golden these days. The darker colors are most concentrated in working lines. Just look through my important links page.
To me getting rid of red and mahogany in golden retrievers is something like if someone decided to get rid of black and white in border collies. Today virtually all working BC’s are black and white, just as virtually all working goldens were very dark in color (and still are). If someone finds a working strain golden, it’s not uncommon for people to think they are setter crosses or puppy-mill bred goldens.
I don’t make it to the blog as much as I used to – I’m gonna have to remedy that! I love the richer-colored Goldens. I dislike that pale, whitish color. Sure, a good dog can’t be a “bad” color, but all other things being equal, I much prefer the honey-colored and darker in Goldens.
I have two dark, mahogany, goldens out of http://www.oakgrovegoldens.com/lineage.php
They are more mellow than the field competition dogs and have amazing dispositions. I use the female as a therapy dog working with children with disabilities and medical emergencies and she never fails to please. She is a cuddle bug and hops right up and snuggles in all manner of hospital beds. I am frequently stopped to discuss her breed and gorgeous coloring and then argued with when I explains he is, indeed, a retriever.
my mohogany golden is a rescue- but I knew he was a rare golden and not a setter cross. Everyone who sees him thinks he is an irish setter. I want to find a breeder who breeds dogs like him so I can have another one day, I wish I knew his bloodline!! I too love the very dark red, thin/flat coated, narrow nosed goldens!
oh and we found a lost red golden the other day a reunited it with its owner- it was even darker than my boy