Natural History

Posted in Uncategorized | Tagged golden retriever | 12 Comments

12 Responses

1. on April 21, 2009 at 5:35 am Pai

   I’ve seen a few episodes of this show, it’s okay. I wonder if they’ll ever do one on Cresteds. Given how AP loves the World’s Ugliest Dog contest, it’d probably make me throw something at the TV.

   
   
   • on April 21, 2009 at 12:05 pm retrieverman

     I’ve seen the episodes that included Labradors and Goldens. I also saw the Jack Russell video on youtube from this show. It gets something wrong– John Russell never bred short-legged dogs.

     
     
2. on April 21, 2009 at 2:44 pm H. Houlahan

   Obese much?

   I like how the voice over is saying that they will “run all day” while on the video the owner is trying to coax the dog to lumber back with the ball.

   My English shepherds’ water entries are a hundred times more energetic, and they can swim considerably faster than these Clumber spaniels on steroids.

   
   
   • on April 21, 2009 at 2:47 pm retrieverman

     I’ve called them blond Newfoundlands. Someone called them blond Bernese Mountain dog.

     And now Clumber spaniels on steroids.

     Perfect description.

     I’m going to use it.

     
     
3. on April 21, 2009 at 2:45 pm H. Houlahan

   Sorry — that previous comment was not from Ken.

   I’m using his computer

   
   
   • on April 21, 2009 at 2:48 pm retrieverman

     That’s okay.

     I think I may just have to get a retrieving English shepherd.

     
     
   • on April 21, 2009 at 2:50 pm retrieverman

     What’s sad is one of those big, coarse dogs has quite a bit of instinct. Not as much as I’ve seen in a performance bred dog, but it’s enough to be polished. But if you ran him all day, he’d be worn out or overheat.

     
     
4. on April 21, 2009 at 8:07 pm H. Houlahan

   The retrieving English shepherd can be arranged. No guarantees on the egg delivered to hand. Sorry.

   While my own foundation bitch and her progeny apparently have some otter genes — her son will swim laps for no apparent purpose other than to do it, and I seriously considered entering Pip in dock-diving when she was younger — her littermate sister was formed from spun sugar, and would have melted if her body was immersed in water.

   I am anxious to learn — and it will be few years down the road yet — whether Janeen’s Audie reproduces his precocious natural retrieving qualities. She suggested a bitch pup who seems to complement him phenotypically, and I like how the pedigrees come together. (This is not paper knowledge — I have met great numbers of the up-close relatives, and quite a few of the far-back ones.) We shall see.

   
   
   • on April 21, 2009 at 10:38 pm retrieverman

     The English shepherds in my area seem to be of a different strain. Most of these dogs are black or black and tan. They bring in milch cows, but that’s it. Usually, they are used to guard the farm, and then take on varmint hunting. A couple of people were crossing them with foxhounds to make a superior varmint dog.

     My grandpa had a black and tan foxhound (progenitor of the black and tan coonhound)/ES cross named Cecil that was used as a “combination dog”– rabbits in the morning and evening, squirrels and grouse during the day.

     The English shepherd is the collie dog that my forebears would have had, probably crossing them with herding dogs from Germany and anything else that could have survived on the frontier. We used to have a large population of wolves well into the late nineteenth century, and I’m sure

     I know a black ES that was mistaken for a golden/Lab cross, and she is an excellent dog. However, when she goes swimming with her owner’s daughter’s giant golden, the ES really gets bogged in the water. She’s got a significantly longer coat than the golden.

     
     
5. on April 22, 2009 at 5:27 pm patricedodd

   My eye is not educated enough to know what I should be looking for in the videos you mentioned, regarding swimming styles. I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on this video of my Irish Water Spaniel swimming. The video is of an indoor dock diving event, but there’s a bunch of swimming in it, too, not just jumping.

   http://patricedodd.wordpress.com/2009/04/20/that-big-empty-space-actually-has-water-in-it-oh-boy/

   
   
   • on April 22, 2009 at 5:54 pm retrieverman

     Your dog swims very differently from those goldens.

     1. He’s got a curled and oily coat, so the water runs along the curls and off the body. This is why virtually all of the earlier water dogs had curly coats of some sort.
     2. Irish water spaniels are built for the work. They are good balance of bone and leg length, so they can swim beautifully.
     3. Your dog has impressive water entry! Dock dogs are water entry competitions, but you’d be amazed how many retrievers don’t want to dive into water.

     I really like IWS. They are always overlooked. They are last of the water spaniels from the Old United Kingdom, which included two Irish strains.

     I really like their tails. When they quarter it reminds me of a whip wagging back and forth.

     The water spaniels got replaced because Labs are the most efficient swimming dogs on the planet. They have a coat like a seal or an otter. IWS and their American cousins were once the most common retrievers in this country, except along the East Coast, where Chessies were more common. Our trials were based on waterfowl hunting, so they were useful. Then the Lab showed up, and they replaced them. In the UK, the trials are primarily land shoots, and these dogs were replaced earlier on by the flat-coats and then the Labs.

     I’m very glad they still exist. They are connection to a past in which the IWS wasn’t the only one of these dogs. One of them, the Tweed water spaniel or Tweed water dog, got absorbed into the golden and Labrador strains, and maybe some flat-coat and curly strains. The English water spaniel got absorbed into curlies and Norfolk retrievers.

     
     
6. on April 22, 2009 at 5:51 pm H. Houlahan

   The black and tan lines of English shepherds are *generally* larger, grittier, more aggressive, more suitable for heavy stock, guarding, and hunting more formidable game, such as bobcats and raccoons.

   The key word there is “generally.”

   And no, it isn’t linked to the color itself, but to the simultaneous selection for that color and those traits by people who favored the former and needed the latter.

   The lines that I like to work with are small to medium sized, have less coat (except my male, who has a lot of coat, but is neutered), are more biddable, more agile, and more suitable for light stock and for public-contact positions. And, obviously, more suitable for SAR, which puts a premium on bold, friendly temperament and teamwork.

   One of the things that I like about the breed is that all these traits are “correct” for someone, and we can all make our choices when we breed or buy without a judge telling us we are wrong.

   
   

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