This female wolf has made a living for herself in Brașov, Romania– a major urban center.
I post this video to tear apart this poorly considered theory, which holds that domestic dog isn’t derived from the wolf.
The crux of that theory is that wolves cannot live near humans without causing trouble.
And while wolves can and do cause problems, not all of them do– as this wolf clearly demonstrates.
As for the genetic “evidence” in that theory, we have a very poor picture of the genetics of ancient wolf populations. Many ancient wolves have been found to have totally unique MtDNA haplotypes. The Alaskan bone crushers and the wolves that lived in Europe 30,000 to 40,000 years ago had unique MtDNA haplotypes that have not been found in living wolf populations.
That could explain why there is such a gap between dog and wolf MtDNA sequences.
However, the piece doesn’t discuss how big the differences are.
Wolf and dog MtDNA haplotypes vary at most by 0.2 percent.
Genome-wide studies have found that dogs and wolves are very closely related. (See page 13.)
Knowing what I know abut wild canid behavior, it would make more sense that the dhole would have been the ancestor of the domestic dog. It is more socially tolerant than wolves are. In fact, it is not unusual for pariah dogs to run with packs of dholes.
But the dhole cannot hybridize with the dog.
The wolf can, and wolfdogs are quite fertile.
Wolf can and do attack people, but it’s not like this is a universal trait. To say that we couldn’t domesticate the wolf because some wolves consider us prey is a bit laughable. The truth is that wolves are intelligent animals that vary in their temperament and life experience. Some wolves may decide that people are prey. Others may decide to scavenge off of us.
With wolves, the worst thing we can do is try to make broad generalizations about them. So much of their behavior is learned that what may be true for one wolf or one population of wolves may simply not be true for others.
Dogs are derived from wolves that learned to work together and live with humans. They not derived from some unknown mystery canid that has yet to be identified.
We do not know the exact ancestor of the domestic sheep. We also don’t know one of the ancestors of the domestic donkey.
But we do know where dogs came from.
This alternative theory is full of gaps. Every claim in it can easily be refuted. The fact that is presented as if there is a great conspiracy theory to claim that dogs are wolves makes it even more annoying.
You may not consider dogs to be the same species as the wolf, but it is pretty clear that dogs was derived from ancient wolves.
It’s that simple.
The overwhelming evidence in the form of genetics, archeology, and animal behavior suggests that the wolf is the dog’s ancestor.
Not a conspiracy theory at all.
It’s a reality theory.
And in science, to refute such overwhelming evidence requires an extraordinary amount of proof that this evidence is wrong.
I’ve not seen it here.
here’s an HTML-preview of the ‘new theory’ of dogs from non-wolf generic canids:
http://tinyurl.com/2accc3j
and i agree –
the DNA-connections from modern-day wolves and modern-day dogs are too close to be happenstance, there is a definite ancestry.
claiming there are not enuf fossils to ‘prove’ anything, in convenient co-embedded story-telling early humans and early dogs together, is really whining; we don’t have a complete human-ancestry record, why should we demand a complete evolutionary record of the transition from wild [ancestral] wolf to [current] many-eons domesticated dogs?
heck, we argue over how breeds begun in the 1915s got from then to now, LOL –
that’s still within living memory, and people come to verbal blows over it! :–))
humans are a very difficult species.
– terry
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
I have half-seriously suggested to those interested in reintroducing gray wolves to the East in America, that they get some of the Italian wolves that live in very developed areas and scavenge from people, and have learned to deal with modern humans, as our coyotes also have–no one takes me seriously, though. But it WOULD make more sense than to get wolves from a wilderness area, that don’t have a clue about humans, and release them in a more developed area with busy roads, livestock, and people everywhere. But then that would be releasing a different subspecies–the European Gray Wolf–instead of an American subspecies, and that trumps practicality with the scientist types! People with a very limited experience with wolves(captive or wild) do tend to generalize about them–a really big mistake–because as soon as you say something absolute about wolf behaviour, sure-as-shootin’, some wolf is going to come along and make you a liar! The domestication process with wolves and early humans probably happened so naturally and easily that little or no effort or thought was put into the process by wolves OR humans. Wolves became associated with hunter-gatherer bands hunting huge megafauna–hence a huge surplus of meat leftover to attract them and make hanging around well worth their while. In time, some pups got adopted and raised by humans(wild pets among primitive peoples are well documented). Some wolves, upon reaching sexual maturity, were too dominant and independent, and struck out on their own(just as wolves do in their own society). But some, more submissive and content with their human pack, stayed. Thus began a completely natural selection of tamer, more submissive qualities that we see in our dogs today. What could be simpler, or be more common sensical than that? The notion that wolves are intractable and difficult is a culturally biased notion coming from overly civilized folk that lead completely unnatural lives alien to a wolf’s ideas of a good life, and is why most wolves in captivity in modern times are less than tractable or happy. But in those long ago days, the wolves were not CAPTIVES, they could come and go as they wished, hunt, mate, and eat plenty. And lead the free, wandering, hunting lifestyle that is wolf heaven-on-earth. With like-minded human hunters as friends and allies–and I’m sure that they both certainly recognized the benefits each species afforded each other, or it would never have lasted long enough to produce our modern domestic dogs……
….And, incidentally, many of our modern dogs would LOVE to live such a life if only they could–roaming and hunting with constant, intimete contact with their beloved humans. Lots of us humans would like to turn the clock back and join them too. I tried on various occaisions, and ran into a term again and again that early, primitive man hadn’t yet coined–VAGRANT!!!!
….And I am hoping, and there is some evidence that it is occurring, that as the cougars(panthers, painters, pumas, mountain lions, catamounts, etc. etc.) move East and reestablish(as they are gradually), they will have also learned to live secretely near humans, and survive and adapt to such a lifestyle as so many other “wild” animals have already. And I hope I live long enough to see one in my own state again(or at least a track or poop or an old kill)–I think they absolutely WILL repopulate the Appalachian mountain chain, if nothing else(and may have already begun–fingers crossed…). It is amazing what a whole secret nocturnal world lives all around modern man, unknown to most people…..
We always have rumors that Eastern cougars are here in WV.
http://www.easterncougar.org/index.htm
I have no idea if they are here or not.
I do know that they have been confirmed in Michigan (http://miwildlife.org/cougars.asp) and Wisconsin (http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/er/mammals/cougar/)
My guess is they’ll come through the Great Lakes through Ontario and Quebec, South to New England and New York, and then down the Appalachians.
That’s the way the Coyotes came.
A Wisconsin cougar found its way to a North Side Chicago
SWPL neighborhood:
http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/chic-puma-wild/
Wow.
Cougars do well near urban areas, provided they don’t eat dogs.
When they start hunting dogs, then they become a problem.
Because then it’s a short leap from hunting dogs to hunting people.
I saw a cougar one overcast afternoon in March of 1992, along a very rural highway near Cave Run Lake in eastern Kentucky. I am 100% certain that it was a cougar, as I was at one point less than 20 feet from it, before it leaped away from the highway into the brush.
Although I have no proof, I also have no doubt in my mind that cougars were never completely extirpated from the remote thickets and canyons of the south-central Appalachians.
Not that I believe it myself, but I have not find any evidence which would prove that modern wolves did not evolve from ancient dogs, what do you think?
Ancient canines could have produced early dogs, then the ancient canines went extinct, then modern wolves evolved from feral dogs?
Modern dogs and modern wolves are close kin, but do dogs come from wolves, or wolves from dogs, or have they both evolved from older canines?
Although I can find no facts behind it, emotionally the idea of modern wolves being feral dogs pleases me.
There is somewhere on the internet, information on the subway dogs of Moscow and how they are sort of returning to a looser role in human society.
Well, the black coloration in wolves originated in dogs first, so some wolves are actually derived from dogs.
https://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2009/02/06/evidence-now-suggests-that-black-wolves-in-italy-and-north-america-got-that-coloration-from-interbreeding-with-dogs/
https://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2009/02/08/adolph-murie-speculated-on-dog-wolf-hybridization-as-the-source-of-unusual-color/
Dogs and wolves are derived from a common ancestor, but there has been a gene flow between dogs and wolves for a very long time. It’s really only in the West, where we’ve really pushed wolves away from most of civilization that the gene flow has almost entirely disappeared, except for a few special cases like fad wolf hybrids, Saarloos wolfhond, and the Czechoslovakian wolfdog.
In Romania, dogs and wolves will cross when they meet at places like this.
>>> …the subway dogs of Moscow and how they are sort of returning to a looser role in human society. <<
hey, heather –
this vid-clip was shot from an apt-window –
http://tinyurl.com/2djcdut
the louder sharp-barks [nearer] are the apt-tenants own indoor-dog, reacting to the dogs outside and alarm-barking.
which would -I- rather deal with: normal wild wolves,
or these semi-feral street-dogs in Russia?
WOLVES – any day.
it’s one of the reasons that wolf-hybrids can be so dangerous when they bite: the combo of human-familiar [meaning like dogs, and UNlike wolves, bold-enuf to approach humans] AND aggressive in the pursuit of resources: food, high-value items, Fs in estrus…
wild wolves are shy of humans; feral dogs may be, but as U see in that clip, they are often willing to aggress in ways that wolves in North America very, very, VERY rarely do.
cheers,
– terry
Generally, wolves attack people as a prey source when they have no other prey available, or they have learned to hunt either livestock or dogs.
It’s just a short leap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans
This is really good.
I don’t think there’s anything different between European and North American wolves, other than individuals wolves or packs have different challenges and life experiences, which may make some, regardless of location or subspecies, willing to attack people.
North American wolves rarely attack people because they have learned that people here are often armed.
In Medieval Europe and in the Stalinist countries, this often wasn’t the case.
European wolves also had a much longer history of association with people, in close proximity, because Europe was much more heavily populated, and the wolves’ natural prey base much more heavily depleted, than was North America.
I think that has to have been a factor, in the willingness to attack people, of many individuals and packs of European wolves.
Popsci has a good article on the different kinds of feral dogs that the Moscow dogs are evolving into; different packs that live as streetwise beggars, watchdogs, scavengers, and night roaming wolfish dogs.
http://www.popsci.com
enter “Moscow dogs” in the search box
As I have mentioned before on this blog, I once kept tabs on a completely feral pack of dogs, that were as shy and elusive as any wild wolves, and they hunted as well as scavenged, and raised their pups in dens they dug–the only major difference that I noted(other than physical appearance, of course!), is I never saw male dogs helping the bitches raise the pups. These experiences(as well as others with other dogs, wolves, and wolf hybrids) have always focused me on the similarities between wolves and dogs, rather than other wild canids, long before the DNA tests “proved” our dogs’ historical ancestry. I have always ENJOYED the comparisons, and admired wolflike traits remaining in dogs–I think some purebred dog people don’t like the comparisons because they view it as similar to comparing themselves to primitive ancestors like Neanderthals or some such! Which I don’t mind those comparisons either!….As for Eastern Panthers–there are quite a few well documented cases–even bodies of animals shot or hit by cars–in the Eastern U. S.–but alas, most have been easily provable as escaped(released) captives–I. D.tattoos, declawed individuals, etc. If and when we get an established breeding, naturally sustainable population, we’ll know it for sure, as there will be occaisional, but regular road kills, as there are wherever cougars are established out West, and have regular contact with busy roads(especially young, dispersing juveniles). They CANNOT establish hardly anywhere in the East without having regular contact with lots of roads, alas! And Retrieverman, we may also get some Panther dispersal from Florida–though it is hard for them to get past the gauntlet of development in South Florida, it IS possible–one panther was shot(dammit! He ALMOST made it to the mountains, and EXCELLENT panther habitat!) in midwestern Georgia recently. It was believed to be an escaped captive–140lbs. and in excellent condition(other than those bullet holes…)–but DNA tests confirmed it was indeed a Florida Panther! This has to be considered exceptional, though, although I WISH they would capture all those poor dispersing juvenile Florida Panthers with nowhere to go, who end up getting hit by cars or killed by adult panthers(as all available panther habitat there is occupied by other territorially aggressive adults), and seed them throughout the Southern Appalachians! Even if some radical secret panther society does it on the sly!…..
….and Kittenz–in regards to your seeing a cougar in eastern Kentucky–back in the 90’s a cub was hit by a car in Kentucky, and positively identified as a cougar cub(this incident can be read about on the “cougar network”, and undoubtedly other sources on the internet). I saw the photographs of the body–no doubt it WAS a cougar kitten! The man who hit it accidentally reported it was at the end of a procession of an adult cougar and several kitens crossing the road at night. DNA tests were done, and the kitten had some South American DNA–indicating that it was probably–at least in part–a descendant from captive bred animals, as a lot of cougars in the exotic pet trade do come from South America. But whether it was also part native was apparently undeterminable. Regardless, there are apparently a few cats out there, from whatever source, and reproducing. that, combined with the natural population expansion from the West(now the Midwest!), will almost certainly guarantee we have them as an established species in the East again. I am not a purist, and have no problem with a wild population descended from formerly captive animals, so long as they make any kind of comeback!