Naturally bob-tailed Pembroke corgi.
Because tail-docking has come under fire in many countries throughout the world, many fanciers are looking for solutions. How does one get a bobbed tail without chopping it off?
Naturally short and bob-tailed dogs are not entirely unheard of. There are at least two different genetic variants that cause this natural bob-tail. In bulldogs and Boston terriers, the tail breeds true, and the only health problem associated with it is the inverted tail.
However, there is another more common bobtail variant. The C198G mutation causes naturally bob-tails in Pembroke corgis and a large number of other dogs. It is lethal semi-dominant, which means that puppies carrying the homozygous gene are either never born or are born with health problems.
Traditionally, homozygous bobtails with this mutation were said to have died as zygotes, but Christopher Landauer at BorderWars found that at least some of these puppies were born— and they had severe health problems.
This suggests that, like breeding double merles, there are welfare reasons for being cautious about breeding these natural bob-tails. These homozygous bobtails are quite rare, but the chance of producing them still exists.
However, this mutation has been deliberately used to introduce the natural bob-tail into the boxer. I do not know if any homozygous bobtails have been born in that breed, but in because more corgis have this mutation, there could be real health and welfare consequences for that breed.
Of course, all breeding brings about the risk of producing puppies with defects. All breeders produce a few puppies that have problems, so maybe this risk is one that needs to be examined with that perspective.
However, it is possible that these homozygous bobtails are more common than we might think, and breeding these dogs might not be such a wise move.
Or maybe we need to use the other bob-tail variants. The bulldog’s shorter tail isn’t such a problem. It would have been a better choice to introduce that trait into boxers. Boxers and bulldogs are close relatives; the boxer was founded by crossing a bulldog or two with the ge German bullenbeissers.
The short tail of the bulldog often is accompanied by other spinal defects, such as hemivertibrae. This appears to be quite common in the French bulldog.
Natural bobtail in the Cocker Spaniel is often lethal; anal atresia (absence of anal opening) is one associated factor.
Perhaps a simple tail-docking is not such a bad alternative.
Hemivertebra in French Bulldogs:
http://tinyurl.com/46ce62x
The way the homozygous tailless pups are described in that study… it sounds very similar to how the lethal gene in Manx cats works. There are different varieties of taillessness expressed with that mutation, with about 20% of kittens affected with fatal spine-shortening as a result. This is reduced if breedings only occur between tailed+tailless cats.
http://www.danzantemanx.com/genetics.htm
The Pem gene also has variable expressivity in the length of the tail… but an actual homozygous pup being born is supposed to be incredibly rare. I know that many Pems are docked, so there are probably a lot of tailed+tailless matings done as routine, so perhaps that makes a difference? But you’d think if the number of homozygous births was as high as 20% that more breeders would mention it.
Heh, I think the ability of breeders to NOT mention problems is limitless. But I don’t think that there are very many homozygous Bobtails even born. The one study didn’t find a single one.
I’m not saying that some very small percent of a deformed puppy weighs more than anything else, I’m saying that the risk is not 0 and thus it has to be weighed.
There’s too much absolutism in dog breeding. I’m not for banishing affecteds and carriers, I’m for managing them. I’m not for governmental laws limiting breeder freedoms, I’m for education and fair evaluation.
I think that while homozygous bobtail pups must occur from time to time, they are so rare as to not signifcantly diverge from the normal rate of pup mortality. In other words, a breeder gets a random pup or two across many years of breeding, and chalks them up to ‘one of those things’ and doesn’t make the connection between the deaths and the gene, since the cause of death is not obvious unless genetic testing is done, and many if not most of their bob+bob breedings turn out completely normal. The correlation must not be as clear as it is with Manx cats — this is always the problem with trying to compare two different species with a similar mutation; they’re not always completely analogous.
And don’t get me wrong, I do understand where you’re coming from. I wouldn’t have shared those papers with you if I thought you were going to be a partisan hysteric about the issue.
I appreciate you writing this series of posts, they’re well reasoned and interesting. I agree that knowing about these genes and how to manage them is the core of responsible breeding of the dogs that carry them.
There is no need to breed (Pembroke) bobtail x bobtail, besides it will not breed true, either.
And the Bulldog tail is a recessive, so it would have needed a completely different strategy to introduce that trait into another breed – and avoiding heavy inbreeding would have been very difficult. Also, it seems to be linked to some serious spinal problems.
So I think Dr. Cattanach did a great work.
Ok the reason for docked tails dates back to when the dogs were hunters and true working dogs, anything likely to get injured and stop the dog from working was cut off at a young age, ears, tails and dewclaws.
Boxers in modern times have been cropped and docked purely for looks alone and seeing as they are never worked as hunting dogs whats the point?
Breeding working dogs for looks alone is fundamentaly floored as it brings in nothing but problems, what is the point exactly of breeding in a gene that has the potential for causing heriditory problems and is totally against nature?
yes you guessed it ..its for looks alone and i think there is a case to be argued that breeding dogs without tails on purpose for no other reason than looks is in fact more cruel than cutting them off at a young age!
Also did you know the German Boxer Club will not recgonise a Boxer with corgi in the pedigree?
Yep.
But I’ve seen them in Munich (where they come from), and they have long tails– very long tails. I’ve never seen a dog with a tail quite like an undocked boxer. It is much longer in proportion to body size than any other dogs I’ve seen, with the possible exception of some sight hounds.
I have Boxers with tails and would not agree that they have very long tails that are out of proportion but they are varied in length size and carriage because they have never beed standardised, we now have guidlines as to how the tail should be but will take a long time for them to breed true.
As with the bobtail you cannot breed a dog with just one trait in mind as the dog is a complete package, this has been proved to me many times by show breeders who breed a litter of bobtails and then keep the puppy with a tail because it is pick of litter, completley defeating the object of producing a bobtail boxer. invariably all dogs produced through bobtail breeding have tails of varying length,many 3/4 length and i have seen many twisted and odd shaped tails so in my opinion this bobtail breeding just introduces deformaties which will only make the standardising of the tail even more difficult, i dont see the point or advantage to the breed breeding in bobtails.
Having lived with both docked and undocked Boxers the tail has in fact improved them from a social point of view, they are more able to signal their mood to other dogs and arent agressed towards as much as the docked dogs.also from a working point of view the tail has given them balance and has improved their agility.
video clip showing boxers with tails http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zO7f2IHAvQ
In my opinion the introduction of the bobtailed boxer is not an improvement at all.
BTW, I have seen boxers with tails, and they are much longer than one might expect.
I’m not some rube American who hasn’t been off the continent.
I know what I’m talking about.
I’m very curious as to where you got that picture of the corgi. Do you know how old the photo is? Is it from a book? Any information would be a huge help!
Follow the link to the BorderWars post. It links to the study.
Ooo wrong one.
I have two posts on the issue.
I can’t remember where I got this one. It’s an old post.
I have been a breeder for 23 years of tailed Pembrokes. Dating back to the time that the UK Pembroke program was part of the boxer study there has been “fall out” over this issue. There is a bobtail line of Pembrokes in Australia, but what is the point when the entire club has gone to showing with a tail and the law in Australia is that if dna proves it was not a natural bobtail there is a substantial fine awarded. When the UK some years back went to docking prohibited, of course the breeding and showing of the Pembroke became an international night mare. The US still shows docked Pembroke Welsh Corgis and very few intact tails are shown to their championship; but it has been done. The point of the first post seems to show that indeed the danger exists in bobtails bred to bobtails. I can tell you that as a whole the Pembroke Welsh Corgi fancy in the US strives to produce healthy canines; going to great lengths to accomplish legitimate genetic testing and the desire to breed bobtails to bobtails is not pursued. As for the docking of the Pem pup’s tail to be for aesthetics only, my question is why would it be challenged? The Pembroke has been a working breed dating back to Wales for a very long time; and the overall look of the Pem included a docked tail. To outlaw docking in the modern era of distinct canine breeds is perhaps evolutionary, considering we are not a pastoral globe any longer; however, I dare say the outlawing of docking had any real substance in the fear of bobtail to bobtail. Rather, the motivation for such laws leans more in the lap of animal rights activism, which, is another story entirely.
I give no quarter to the AR lobby, but I think tail-docking, unless it can be demonstrated to have a benefit, ought to be banned. I’m for tail docking in spaniels and HPR’s, as well as livestock guardians that have to deal with wolves, but there is no evidence that tail docking is of any benefit to an actual herding dog. If it were, they would all be docked.
Seems I read somewhere that taildocking in herding breeds in Britain began as a way to show to the tax man that these cur-tailed dogs were working farm dogs and so not subject to the tax levied on “luxury”, I.e. non-working, dogs. Later it just became custom.
Also gave us the word “curtail”, to cut short.
The word “cur” meaning dog, particularly a working farm dog.
I should clarifiy a statement…
…the law in Australia in the conformation competition show ring is that if one shows a docked Pembroke, the canine must be a natural bob tail or a fine is awarded.