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Natural History

by Scottie Westfall

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William Gordon Stables on the varieties of retriever

June 8, 2011 by retrieverman

From Practical Kennel Management (1877):

There are three different breeds usually named: 1, the Black Flat-coated Retriever; 2, the Black Curly Retriever; and 3, the Red Retriever.

1. The Black Flat-coated Retriever. — Head: a good long head, with a capacious mouth and good teeth; eye large, bright, and extremely intelligent; ears not too large, low-placed, and set to the head, short feather on upper part, and bare towards the tips; nose ought to be large, showing great development of nasal sinuses; shoulders deep and obliquely placed; loins and back, wide and strong; thighs strong and muscular; limbs as strong as a lion’s, and straight as an arrow; feet round and compact, and toes well arched. The head should appear almost human, in its amount of sagaciousness and character. The head is covered with fine, very short hair. Colour a raven black; coat very thick and warm, very straight and glossy—satiny, in fact; stern well feathered, and carried straight. These dogs in disposition appear timid, but they are very courageous in a fight.

2. The Black Curly Retriever.—In general formation, both this dog and the Red Retriever ought to be the same; but his coat is one mass of short, multitudinous, crisp curls. There ought to be no feather on the legs below the hocks, and no flag on the tail— nothing but the short, crisp, curls from the occiput to the point of the tail. The curly-coated dog is more leggy than the flat-coated. This breed is apt to be harder in the mouth, and not so easily taught.

3. The Red Retriever.—Same points as last, and the same sort of coat, only the colour is a liver-red. There is also a breed of White Curly Retrievers coming into fashion. The size I like in a Retriever is about 25 in. at the shoulder.

The description of the flat-coated retriever is fairly typical for texts of the time period. The only unusual part of the description of them being great fighters. This breed is predominant ancestor of the modern flat-coat and golden retrievers. Having seen a tiff between a female golden retriever and her half boxer daughter, I can say that the golden wasn’t really the best at canine combat. They are lovers, not fighters.

But the description of the curly-coated retriever is of much greater interest.

The implication that the liver curly was an entirely separate variety that was on the same “taxonomic level” as the split between flat-coats and curly-coats of the day is also of interest. This suggests that there was a move to make the liver curly a separate breed or that it originated from different water spaniel and St. John’s water dog crosses.

Or it may have been nothing more than the curly-coated retriever fanciers preferred the black dogs over any other color, and those who wanted to show the odd liver had to create their own variety.

Being raised to the variety status could have led to a breed split, as it did with the yellow flat-coat variety in the first decade of the twentieth century.  That variety of yellow flat-coat is now called the golden retriever.

It would be interesting to figure out why the “red retriever” never became a distinct breed. Perhaps it may have something to do with the fashion of breeding liver curlies to black ones to reduce “dinginess” in the coats of the black dogs.

But I’m sure the most interesting discussion is of the “white” curly-coated retriever strain. My guess is that these “whites” were actually pale yellows, for the yellow coloration has popped up in virtually every breed of retriever at one point. And two breeds of retriever have only yellows– the golden and the Nova Scotia duck-toller.

The yellow color likely was a recessive that sometimes popped up  in the St. John’s water dog, but with the British retrievers, another source for the yellow color could be the Tweed water spaniel or Tweed water dog.

I would love to see a depiction of  a white or yellow curly. These dogs must not have been too numerous, for they have entirely disappeared from the curly-coated retriever bloodlines.

Posted in Retriever history | Tagged curly coated retriever, red retriever | 6 Comments

6 Responses

  1. on June 8, 2011 at 9:34 am Karen Bell

    White curlies? There are very occasional blonde or light ginger, (I have a pic somewhwere) in Murray curlies about. Murrays never throw to black. However flatties do go to liver and yellow so maybe it is not impossible that there were white CCRs. The CCRs I have had has been much softer in the mouth than my flatties or most Murrays. IF anything my CCRs have been more intelligent and aloof…


    • on June 8, 2011 at 9:41 am retrieverman

      This was 1877.

      Yellow was a known recessive trait in St. John’s water dogs.

      I believe there is a stuffed yellow curly on display somewhere in England.


    • on June 8, 2011 at 9:43 am retrieverman

      The problem is that there are no true white retrievers in other breeds.

      We do have a “white” coloration in golden retrievers and yellow labs.

      That appears to be more parsimonious than saying that they were truly white.


    • on June 8, 2011 at 9:44 am retrieverman

      The old dogs were hard-mouthed, I think, because the gamekeepers would use them to kill rats!


  2. on June 8, 2011 at 11:13 am M.R.S.

    I have seen mention of white Curlies elsewhere in some old texts, as well as white Labradors. And there were the ‘white” retrievers of Capt Radclyffe (the owner of Ben of Hyde) — these appeared to be wavy-coats. there’s a photo in Hutchinson’s Dog Encyclopedia; look under “Yellow Labrador”

    All of these “white” dogs were almost certainly of the same genetic formula as White Shepherds, Kuvasz, and some other breeds called white or cream — a modification of the ee yellow that produces extremely pale coat color.


    • on June 8, 2011 at 11:18 am retrieverman

      Karen also sent me a photo of a “white’ Murray River curly.

      Samoyeds are e/e, but with recessive red to yellow, you have the chinchilla gene which makes modifications on coat color:

      C – Normal pigment — dominant, Irish setter would have this color.
      c(ch) – Chinchilla
      c(e) – Extreme chinchilla (extreme dilution)
      c (p)- Platinum (ivory)

      Golden retrievers have various forms the chinchilla modifier. I think the light colored retrievers are extreme dilution retrievers.

      We know the inheritance fairly well, but we don’t know the genes!

      It’s all theoretical.



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