Belgian-bred CC Lux/Slo Ch Ithani was the BOB Neapolitan mastiff that won BOB but was dismissed for failing her health check.
In a shocker of all shockers, the Neapolitan mastiff that won BOB at this year’s Crufts has failed the mandatory health check. That means it won’t be making it to the group.
CC Lux/Slo Ch Ithani was dismissed for health reasons that aren’t clear at this time.
I know from first hand experience that the Neapolitan mastiff crowd are particularly bat shit, so I know that the paranoid screeds from these people are going to be way over the top.
Five BOB’s at this year’s Crufts have failed to pass their health checks.
See related posts:
I don’t think anyone was shocked by this decision. Well, anyone except the Neo breeders, who are so used to their dogs being messes they probably are unable to even recognize health problems anymore.
Not at all surprised and when I look at this video of this breed through the ages I just want to *sob* tbh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spm7utD1Rf0&feature=player_embedded#!
Trying to reverse these extreme trends with the limited gene pool available to them, is not going to work. They are in a world of trouble without using out crossing.
Breed to Cane Corso.
Derived from a very similar ancestor.
Official press release:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/4205/23/5/3
Agree, outcrossing is the way ahead.
BIG shocker.
Check out these boxer breeders, I bet their boxers would have passed the health screenings at Crufts, becasue of how exclusive they are: http://masakadoshiba.wordpress.com/2012/03/10/the-worlds-most-exclusive-puppy-contract/
[…] 2012Posted in: dogs, health & genetics, sine qua non disease To the surprise of no one, the Neapolitan Mastiff and the English Mastiff have joined the ranks of failed Best of Breed dogs at this year’s […]
Not surprised, didn’t get to the neo’s, spent some time near the gsd ring though. Unsurprisingly wasn’t impressed with the anatomy of the dogs being shown, at that time.
Wasn’t taken with the BOB either, but it passed its health check.
Don’t forget to let The KC know that you support their stand on dog health at Crufts.
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/about/contact_us.html
should some of the blame not lay at the kennel club itself.afterall it was the judges who over the years put these types through,thus giving the wrong impression to power hungry breeders who are more interested in the title than the health of their dogs.i have 3 neos,they are not show dogs they are healthy because they were bred with love in mind not title.
I know where some beautiful old world Neo’s are. In the hills of Castelvolturno Italy. I saw them with my own eyes and put my hands on them when I last visited in 1990. Dr. Dorthea Fritz of Lega Pro Animale can probably point you to their breeders. She is the one who gave them all their rabies shots.
I can not tell you how happy I am that Crufts is tossing out these abominations of breeder’s fancy.
I like Hoyden’s comment. Was wondering if perhaps backcrossing would be appropriate in some breeds instead of or in addition to x-breeding. Ironically, back-crossing might be useful for undoing some of the extremes if back-crossing is to the “old-fashioned” types. Some members of some breeds never made it into the show kennels, but others might have been dropped and entered the pet trade/BYB kennels before the extreme types were created. Might be worth scouring the land for BYB specimens displaying “old-fashioned” types.
It’s not just a smart and ethical move the KC has made, but a bold, very public, very dramatic one. Not a slap on the wrist, not something that can be ignored. Praise for the KC.
Apparently the Bassett judge is being quite strict, a few have been dismissed from the ring already.
Important to note as Raziar is stating her, the bassett judge was dismissing dogs. A judge should be able to judge which dogs are healthy. After all, that is what he is judging for, to choose the best animals to be used for breeding stock, correct?
Why do they need vets to do the judges dirty work? Why are they doing this to only 15 breeds? If this is a problem, and apparently it is, since the judges are unable to do their job, why are they not vet checking all the breeds? Why aren’t they checking hearts? Come on……
I agree the neo needs a lot of work. I agree that most dogs are bred for money and/or prestige, power, etc. I agree most people in this breed are bat shit.
However, there are breeders out there who do give a shit. Who are trying their damndest to improve the breed.
I am a breeder. I care about this breed. I am bat shit about this breed. And, my dogs. I am very cautious about which dogs I use, I am very, incredibly cautious about whose dogs I bring into my program. My husband plans breedings based on what WE are looking for. On what improvements, WE WANT. Not what the buyer, or other breeders are looking for. We breed based on the breed standard.
We are not popular in the breed. I don’t care. I do what I do for the dog, for MY dogs. For the future.
I am very cautious about whom we place dogs with. We do NOT sell to breeders or show people, unless we are very much assured our dogs are going to good homes. And, then, they go as co-owned. We sell our pups as pets. I much prefer our dogs go to pet homes. It is not about the almighty dollar to us.
Now, am I breeding perfect dogs? No, I’m not, however, I fell that I’m getting closer with each generation.
And, I won’t be doing any crossbreeding, either. I don’t need to.
So, instead of being part of the problem, I encourage any naysayers to become part of the solution. Please.
This breed needs crossbreeding to save it. It is an absolute myth that this breed has existed for thousands of years.
The whole type-breed is nothing more than a selection for recessives, which were pretty hard to set in the breed without doing a lot of inbreeding in the founding population. The people of Naples and its environs milled these dogs very hard, breeding for extremes over time and selling them gullible fanciers in Germany and the United States.
Less typey Neos do often get called crossbreeds, even if they are nothing of the sort.
What bothers me more in your statement is that crossbreeders are automatically evil because they crossbreed and reject the fundamental tenants of the dog fancy system.
Hi,
I didn’t say crossbreeding was evil. I don’t feel it is necessary in our case. I may be wrong. To remain akc, we are not allowed to do so.
Basett fails, blood hound passes.
Now as I say, the basett judge was apparently being strict. So, is it a judging error, or was the best the hjudge had to choose from, still just not good enough?
I can’t find a source on the basset, but it will be up also.
http://dogshowpoop.blogspot.com/2012/03/akc-takes-stand.html?m=1
Load of shite if you ask me.
I saw this statement yesterday, but I needed to see it blogged somewhere before I could do anything with it.
Thanks for finding me an outside link. It’s going on the blog now!
I don’t think crossbreeders are evil.
I have purebred neapolitan mastiffs and I also now have spanish mastiffs, which I won’t crossbreed either.
I believe I can get what I want, by selective linebreeding and outcrossing. Maybe I am wrong. But, if I want to remain in the AKC, and I do, I must keep my dogs purebred.
I agree with you about the breeders in Naples. They are notorious for doing what you mention. None of their “good dogs”, have came to the US, and if they did, it was a fluke.
My 6.5 year old Neapolitan, Merlin, took top neo in the country in 2007. By most breeder’s standards, he is poo-pooed by them. They don’t like him. But, their typey dogs have DCM and drop dead by age two. Or, have demo. Most of these breeders do NOT have dogs that live past the age of four. And find that acceptable!
I know of a dog that took highest honors in the country, that had such bad demo, that it was given 2 liters of iv fluid to be able to compete. I KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE AND I WON’T TOUCH THEIR DOGS WITH TEN FOOT POLES! But, they get tens of thousands of dollars for their dogs. Italian breeders get tens of thousands for their dogs. My husband paid that for one of his dogs!
However, in the akc’s eyes, in 2007, Merlin was top scorer. He is now going on seven years of age, and doesn’t show it. He breeds naturally, at the drop of a hat. He has CLEAN EYES! I have many of his offfspring here, he just had a great litter NATURALLY BRED, just this summer. We are keeping two of those pups.
He is mastini through and through. Not trained, he just IS.
Two summers ago, he was sleeping on the floor, between me and the door, the air conditioning was running in our rv, and my dad opened the door and walked in. Merlin gave an alert, and grabbed Dad’s wrist, TO STOP HIM. Did not hurt him. Did not break the skin.
I don’t need to cross him with anything. He has been cardiac cleared at age five, and I’m sure he would still pass.
I don’t care if others crossbreed, if it seems to suit their purpose. It doesn’t suit mine.
I know the neo needs a lot of work. I’m in it for the long haul. I have tens of thousands of dollars invested. And no return. It is a thankless job, but, my dogs are important to me, and their legacy.
I breed for myself, and my husband. We keep something out of every litter, we plan our breedings, to improve our dogs and the breed.
I do NOT sell my dogs for tens of thousands of dollars to breeders. I sell my dogs as PETS. If I do sell a dog to a potential breeder or show person, they leave our property as a co-own. I maintain some control in what happens to my bloodlines. Because I do care.
i have seen some wonder exampls when they crossed with a bull arab & then back crossed to the neo again but using plain type neo’s. Our aussy bull arabs where origanally breed from bull terriers x with a greyhound pointer crossbred.
The dogs I saw where breed using these types of bull arabs http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v485/Pietoro/Dog%20Breed%20Historical%20Pictures/
& 2 very plain neo bitches origanally then bitch pups where crossed back to a male who was a tad more wrinkled but had nice lines & longer legs & the resulting litters where very old fashioned neo in type. The guy who was breeding them was using them for pro dog sports & pig hunting & was going to cross them back to some ban dogs but they moved up to the top of QL 7 i’m not sure how that went. but if the back crossed pups where then breed back to a pure but plainer neo again I think the result would have been very very close to the pictures we see of old fashioned working Neo’s.
Readers may as well know that Anne Goetz has a very murky rep in the Neo world for inbreeding and intense linebreeding (ok just call it what it is, inbreeding) her Neo’s so it does not surprise me to read here she’s against crossbreeding. And the Neo, much like the Spanish Mastiff, which I raise, is in deep waters in terms of health issues and structural issues. And the shock of an outcross might do it good. So retrieverman, I agree with you there.
Anne Latimer Goetz claims she is not in it for the money? Tell us please, Anne…how it is you could sleep at night and ask $2500-5000 per puppy peddling your Spanish Mastiffs as ‘pets’ (when you weren’t trying to pass them off as LGDs and you owned no livestock)…when anyone can buy better or top quality SM’s in EU for only $1750, then?
“I have tens of thousands of dollars invested. And no return. ” I don’t exactly call five grand for a pup that’s only worth $1200-1500, “no return”…….give me a break…..
Hi, folks,
Anne here, Brenda Negri is apparently angry at the remarks she has had on her FB page for over a year about me.
She seems to feel she is the ultimate Spanish Mastiff breeder in the USA. Let me tell you, she isn’t.
She claims she is the only breeder in the country to xray her dog’s hips. Apparently, she has xrayed a few of her dogs. But, not necessarily before she bred them!!!!
I have five Spanish Mastiffs, Polly is an import from the same breeder that Brenda uses!!!
Polly has excellent hips that were cleared by my breeder’s vet, and they were scored in the country that she was born in. I followed my breeder’s advice, which is what I advise people to do, as long as they are involved with ethical breeders, and Lenka of Tornado Erben is above reproach.
I have had two litters from Polly, both litters were from dogs with excellent hip scores, and those litters were two years apart, AND, I have three of those pups still here, with me. I also have a french import.
I am planning on breeding a female whom is over two years old, and will be proceeding with the health testing this month. Before she comes into season.
Let me address the Cruft issue.
I have had neapolitan mastiffs since 1996 or 97. I love the breed. I am an ethical breeder. No, I don’t charge, what did Ms Negri say??? Five grand??? I don’t even use those words. Have never charged that kind of money.
I didn’t say what she claims I said.
Yes, the neapolitan mastiff has a lot of health issues.
It has had horrible people in the breed for years. I’m not one of them.
I only will sell my puppies with limited registration, because of the things people have done to this breed, and I won’t have my dogs bloodlines used in poor breeding practices. So, you see, I’m not charging huge fees for unlimited registration, and making money hand over fist. I work as an ED rn, my husband stays home with the dogs. I work to support my animals, my dogs don’t support me.
We are always planning breedings with health, temperament, and longevity in mind. I have 5 generations of Neapolitan mastiffs, here, in my home. I have a 9.5 year old female whom was the top neo in the country for most of 2009. I have a 7.5 year old male, whom was the top neo in the country in 2007. And so on…..
So, folks, you see, Brenda Negri has bit into a sour apple.
She xrays her dogs, when she has the money to do so, and not necessarily before breeding them, by HER OWN WORDS.
She has been removed from so many forums in the dog world, I have lost count. She has had to develop her own forum, where she can post nasty comments about responsible people and breeders to her heart’s content.
Just google her name, you will find out…
And, as to my name being “murky”, in the neo world….. I guess considering the people in that world judging me, that doesn’t surprise me… However, this isn’t about money, power or fame to me, it’s about my dogs, and I let them speak for me. And, they do…..
Anne, its very interesting how so many people saw the photos of your starved out dogs and cried for you to be shut down and put out of business. Your own photos speak a 1,000 words. Anyone doubt me? You can go here and see for yourself: http://spanishmastiff.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-dog-and-phony-show-anne-latimer.html Now I know why you are the black sheep of the Neo world and why you’re held in such contempt by many Neo Club people. You are the ultimate in BS and nothing more than a thinly veiled puppy mill….oh, and folks, if you want to see what OTHER people said when they saw those photos of Anne’s Spanish Mastiffs on Facebook, here:
Malia Stanford Hard OMG!! These dogs bear no resemblance whatever to your dogs. She’s running a puppy mill, and poorly at that!! How do we stop her from doing this to her dogs??!?!?!?!
March 4 at 9:09am via mobile · Unlike · 1
Rhebeka Hyland At Kelgre They don’t even look like Spanish Mastiffs. Is this woman still trying to breed? God help us…why is the dog world so screwed up? Too many selfish people out to make a buck. Who cares if the dogs are poor quality…and ill-treated, too.
March 4 at 9:18am · Unlike · 2
Tabitha Calvert AWFUL! That person should not EVER be allowed to have animals!
March 4 at 9:18am · Unlike · 2
Cinco Deseos Ranch Livestock Guardian Dogs This woman has a very nefarious reputation in the AKC Neopolitan Mastiff show world. Now she’s got her claws into the Spanish Mastiff. Yes. She is still breeding. She just had a litter of two very tiny looking puppies in another AI deal. I saw a photo of them. They looked abnormally small for this breed. Yeah, I don’t even know what to say about the way her dogs look. They have Tornado Erben bloodlines. WHY they look like this is beyond me….compare them to Xanto, and my brindle sisters….there IS NO comparison. So, is it because they aren’t feeding them right or enough? Yeah….welcome to the wonderful world of the SM in America….this lady is the one trying to be the liason to AKC for the breed….she has to be exposed. That’s why I’m doing this.
March 4 at 9:43am · Unlike · 4
Rhebeka Hyland At Kelgre Glad you are…the dogs deserve to be represented by someone who knows what they are doing, though I wish the AKC wouldn’t get involved at all. Ruins too many great breeds…
March 4 at 10:35am · Unlike · 3
Ken Crane listen…You don’t have to sugarcoat it to save my sensitive nature. tell me how You really feel, please…..judas priest…she’s a real pice of work, ain’t she. the ‘concrete floor’ photos? look like they’re at a county kill pound! sound the de guello w/this woman, and don’t give over til you got her pelt on Your belt! people like here give me that nasty, acidic bile taste in the back of my throat!
March 4 at 11:44am · Like
Cinco Deseos Ranch Livestock Guardian Dogs HA Ken Crane you crack me up…. Its people like her, and Lois Jordan and a few others who truly do deserve to be tied to crosses in a public square and flogged. I was shocked to see these photos. I am sick and sad for the dogs.
March 4 at 12:26pm · Unlike · 2
Ken Crane flogging’s too good for them. LOUIS JORDAN, THE ACTOR??!! wth…saddens me to hear this! seriously tho, i’ve seen better Dogs come out of hoarding cases than what she’s foisting off on the public. i would wager there’s few of these Pups that haven’t had major, major medical issues….
March 4 at 12:36pm · Edited · Unlike · 1
Cinco Deseos Ranch Livestock Guardian Dogs No not the actor this is a lady in Wisconsin who has had SM’s for ten years. Has never tested a single dog for HD. At least I know which ones of mine have it. Anne Goetz same deal – the only dog she has that was tested was tested in EU. Not here. I can only think these dogs look this bad due to nutrition issues. They truly are underweight and almost stunted. Well, the more people see what ‘normal’ is the less inclined they are to buy from people like this and Jordan.
March 4 at 12:39pm · Unlike · 1
Ken Crane (i was pulling your leg when i should not have been-a flaw in my character, i’ll joke as they strap me in the chair)…..the Dogs look like They’re worm infested…and They have had Their marvelous Spirits broken, or at the least damaged greatly….
March 4 at 12:44pm · Unlike · 1
Malia Stanford Hard Excuse my ignorance, but isn’t AKC supposed to have some kind of oversight responsibility to expose and eradicate these types of situations? Barring that, can’t she be reported to the ASPCA or other humane organization? Sorry, but these pictures show extreme abuse/neglect and I think they should be prosecuted. Just my humble opinion…….
March 4 at 1:16pm via mobile · Unlike · 1
Cinco Deseos Ranch Livestock Guardian Dogs I don’t know..because I don’t deal with AKC. I do know that a picture is worth a thousand words…and her picasa albums are public, and I snagged a bunch of shots off of there to spread around, and sometimes that is the best thing to do: people see these photos they are going to run in the opposite direction of her SM litters.
March 4 at 1:43pm · Unlike · 3
Chris Finlayson The conditions are terrible, stupid that she is allowed to even own a dog, let alone make money off of them!
March 4 at 3:37pm · Unlike · 1
Laura Spindler Geezus! Like I commented on the blog they look like Yellow Labs….are you sure this isn’t a Labrador puppy mill??? And the freaking trash all over the place….go out and pick some crap up lady!
March 5 at 8:16am · Unlike · 1
Cinco Deseos Ranch Livestock Guardian Dogs I know….did you see all the shit around there that a dog could have got caught up in…she is a flipping puppy mill…..
March 5 at 8:20am · Unlike · 1
Laura Spindler Yeah that place is a nightmare! Hell as broke up as I am I keep my property better than that! Oh yeah by the way, Sele has topped 70 lbs. and Violet is only 3 lbs. behind her…..LOL!
March 5 at 8:22am · Unlike · 1
Randy Carpadus Unfortunately the AKC has no ability to deal with this kind of thing nor are they really driven to.
March 6 at 5:48pm · Unlike · 1
Cinco Deseos Ranch Livestock Guardian Dogs You are right Randy Carpadus in fact I think they embrace people like Goetz. Ha…have to laugh. She just tried calling my cell. I hung up, grin…obviously we’re pushing her buttons!!!! She can’t post here but she’s obviously reading all your comments….you guys have hit home!
March 6 at 6:37pm · Edited · Unlike · 2
Marti Young I hope you keep pushing!.
Yeah, Anne Bat Shit….keep trying. Your rep is in the toilet. I hope you get fined and put out of business….you don’t even have a license to do business in dogs, I bet…..maybe I should turn you into the NC authorities….grin….