If anyone thinks that the modern kennel club bulldog can actually bait a bull, they need to have their heads examined.
This fanciful depiction belongs in science fiction– or even outright fantasy!
The only way a bulldog of that sort is likely ever to kill a bull is if the bull dies from laughing at the massive lump of canine freakishness that lies before him.
Thank heavens that bulls are no longer baited then, except they are still tortured in bullrings of course, though this nasty activity is diminishing I hear.
No its more the bulldogs themselves which are suffering these day, as you correctly imply. The bulldog is one of those breeds currently under scrutiny by the new British kennel club initiative against designer cruelty. Do you think that the American canine authority might follow this example any day soon. I hear they have no such intention at the moment.
BWHAHAHAHAHA! OMG, that is so funny. And here I thought paintings of Afghan hounds chasing animals with their massive coats blowing around was fanciful.
Some people have quite the imagination!
Sadly in America the baiting of wild boar is still praticed. The breed often used in this sport is the American Bulldog which is claimmed to be the original English Bulldog (concocted history). Many actual hunters of wild boar use any Cur/Pit type mixes, and baiting is no proof of any purity of a real Bulldog. Real Bulldogs are smaller Mastiffs and only by fighting in the pits is their real purity proven. These are the Staffs of England, Ireland, and APBT of America. I am not promoating Pit Fighting of dogs, but only explainning what a real Bulldog is.
“Baiting dogs were often more like Staffordshire Bull Terriers than Bulldogs.”
Hancock
I have yet to find any written documentation of crossing in Terrier except for the breed EBT, untill after 1900. I don’t believe it ever happened, but rather the Staff of England is the pure and refined version of the original English Bulldog.
THE
DROVER’S DOG
Is larger than the colley, and seems to have sprung from a cross with the lurcher. He is as sagacious as the shepherd’s dog, but more courageous; and will pin and pull down a bul-lock in a moment, if directed to do so by his master.
THE
CUR-DOG
Is the colley mongrelized. He is a bully and a coward, and is very fond of running after the heels of a horse; but, with all his faults, is the best watch-dog in existence, and is, on that account, valuable to the poor cottager, of whose humble dwelling he is ever a faithful guardian.
Richardson, 1874
The Cur in South USA is better defined by Drover’s Dog of the UK. The basic Lurcher type behind our Curs derive from the Lebrel crosses of early Spanish imports. Think of the Catahola, which is used to pin cattle.
I have that very text somewhere on my hard drive.
Hey wait a minute Ray, what’s this about bulldogs baiting wild boar. Excuse my ignorance but I didn’t know wild boar existed in the New World, certainlyy not naturally so were they introduced at some point.?It seems likely but I’d not heard of them there – only the peccary in South America (not closely related but another near convergence with the european wild pigs.)
Incidentally we once visited the Mediterranean island of Corsica and were quite startled and interested to find packs of wild pigs roaming about, even just walking down the roads – which were by appearance obviously descended from domestic pigs which in turn of course were themselves descended from the wild boar – almost a dingo moment that one.
Anyway tell me more.
They’ve been imported.
There are also feral pigs that have bred in the wild for several generations that might as well be wild boar.
They are most common in the South, but they are in just about every state now.
Thanks for answering, as mainly they were imported by Spain. Wild boar are found around old Spanish Forts where the larger Bulldogs are found. They were once domestic. In my area, Hernando de Soto crossed the Mississippi River, and Spain built Fort Bluff in Memphis Tenn. All locals know the Spanish were the first to settle this area. The hunting style of Cur Dogs and the knife passed down from the early Spanish goucho style and is used in my local area by folks that can barly read or write but are real country boys. Corcica is very interesting, did you see any old Alano type dogs? Some say the Cane Courso derived from Corsica. What we call White English Bulldogs actually derives from an amalgamation of dogs from Sicially, Corcica, Spain, EnglaFrance, and elsewhere. They are used to drive the wild boar out of our feilds. They will fight and even kill them. I am speaking of the true old type farm Bulldogs that reach up to 120lbs or so.
The wild boar had vanished from Britain centuries ago but were reintroduced late 20th century. Being such a resourseful and fast moving creature it is very successful. Great because they have such a useful purpose turning over the ground etc. Welcome back you porkers!
feral pigs are very common, and very destructive, in many parts of the USA.
It is common to use APBTs to “catch” these animals.. and the dogs use pretty much the same “grab and hold” as their ancestor “bulldogs” did. The American bulldog ( a bulldog, that unlike the APBT, has no terrier in it) is also used for this purpose.
The dog that became the Staffordshire bull terrier (a mix of bulldog and terrier) was never big enough to bait bulls in England. That activity (both for sport and management) was banned in the UK and the SBT (supposedly) resulted as fanciers wanted a smaller, more transportable dog, for pit fighting.. The documentation for terrier input into the SBT in the mid-1800’s is as clear as any breed documentation, so I’m not sure what Ray is talking about. The SBT, and its American descendent, the APBT, are terrier and bulldog mixes at their origin. Bullbaiting/catching was not what they were designed for. There’s some minor evidence that early APBT types were used to manage cattle in frontier times, but aside from family companions and vermin catchers, their primary role and the role they were bred for was ‘pit” fighting.
I disagree as I have actual drawings of baiting Bulldogs of less than 30lbs baiting bulls. I am asking to see actual documentation of the Terrier cross written of that time – not a century later. Here’s a clip of hog hunting that includes a White English Bulldog of the same exact bloodline used to guard my goats from preditor on my farm. This bloodline is far older than the American Bulldog that was concocted in the 1970s. While the APBT, mostly not game but psudo bred have been quite common, the popularity of our farm Bulldogs by Alan Scott and others is a new concept. There is no history of this written untill after the 1970s. This bloodline was used by Billy Hines as well as used in the ABBB….
What we call White English actually derived mainly from Spain. In 1733, when the English started to settle Georgia, Spain had been there nearly 200 years, and the English were trying to push them out. The dogs that work cattle eventally became known as Bulldogs by the succeeding English speaking settlers. On this Presa Canario site, we see an actual photo of a Spanish Cracker family and waggon in Flordida with a lg size Bulldog used to round up cattle and to defend the family. This type of Shepherd’s Mastiff quite useful in fighting preditor like wild dogs, panther, or bear. One of my Bulldogs killed a Bobcat in one bite…. http://sportingbullandterrier.webs.com/presacanario.htm
“The barbaric sport of bull-baiting demanded the production of savage, ferocious, fearsomly aggressive dogs. Any thirty pound dog prepared to attack an enraged one ton bull has to be….”
Hancock, MBE
(Any thirty pound dog from Staghounds to Drover’s Dogs that could pin the bull were used for the sport)
Mr Hancock is one of the world’s formost authorities of the English Bulldog, and Richard Stratton is one of the world’s formost authorities of the original American Bulldogs aka Pit Bull…..
“If the Bulldog originally looked like our breed and was already agile like our breed, then the old story about the breed’s origin being a result of a cross of the Bulldog and a terrier becomes an ‘unneeded hypothesis’ and scientifically must be rejected on principle.”
This is the APBT, Stratton, 1976
The APBT comes in great variation of size, some over 100lbs, although the smalliest are preferred in the pits. The story that they were bred small to tuck in the coats to hide them was nothing more than speculation. Far more plausible, is the fact that runts are usually the scrapiest of the litter and must fight their siblings to survive. The early Pitmen were impressed by these scrapy runts that never gave up against their larger siblings. These runts were then inbred making them smaller and scrapier. But, this process can not be traced to any one country or time.
NORMAN FRENCH CONNECTION
“With in many cases light eyes and red noses, and in all cases only slight projection of underjaw had tails which reached in the hocks, represented the English Alaunt as bread in England and Bordeaux in the years 1151/1411.”
Our Dogs, Voss, 1933
Most English writers, like Voss, were very conceded to think that England was the center of the world in dog breeding, especially of the Mastiff. The term Mastiff was introduced to England by the Norman invaders of France in 1066, before this, the term Bandog was introduced by the Anglo-Saxon invaders. From 1151/1411, these Norman Rulers of England ruled Bordeaux France. Therefore, in all reality, both the French and English Mastiff of the time were of Norman stock – that being interbred with the French and English Alaunts. It was the Norman conqurers that reintroduced bear baiting to England. Bull baiting did not exist in its latter form, but was called – “The Running of the Bull,” in which Butcher’s Dogs (smaller Shepherd’s Mastiffs) drove cattle to town to be butcherd.
King Philip II of Spain opened trade with England in 1556, and imported the English Mastiff of the Norman French type to Cuba which gave rise to the Cuban Mastiff – a large sized reddish/brown dog used to guard cattle and fight in the Pits/Arenas. Written by the English writer, Mr Smith, in 1839, the Cuban Mastiff “was much crossed with the Spanish Cattle Dogs of America”. These cattle dogs have their roots in the various cattle dogs used in the Cuban Bloodhound of the Azore Cattle Dog (Cao de Fila de Sao Miguel) a Fila (Fila being another name for the Cuban Bloodhound), the Bardino of the Canary Islands, or the Portugese Cattle Dog. Such were called the Alano/Lebrel cross, also said to be of Sighthound type (like the Azore Catte Dog of today). Slaves/natives were treated like cattle, and cattle dogs are used to round up and catch or pin wayward stock. This became known as the Cuban Bloodhound, which were but fierce cattle dogs of the Mastiff type. These, and a vast number of other imports, gave rise to a vast number of Cur breeds (Drover’s Dogs) and Bulldogs in South USA, but the greatiest influance was from Spain, as she occupied the South, where these dogs are found today.
“Even if all this evidence were not enough, examination of the Butcher’s Dog, or Bulldog depicted by Bewick and on print of latter times show that the variety of animal was, without doubt, a small mastiff, with a comparitivly long head.”
The Complete History of Fighting Dogs, Mike Homan, 1881
The generic breed called Brindle Bull, of 50 to 60lbs, found around old Spanish forts of South USA, is still known as one of the fierciest guard dogs with the reputation of most any Brindle Mastiff type found in Spain’s New World, South American countries, even in the Canary Islands. One can read of the Brindle Bulldog as written by Loura Ingals in the Little House of the Prarie. This little girl, living on the frontier, knew far more about our Southern Bulldogs than most any expert today. Keep in mind, the APBT did not even exist untill 1898. Thus, the Brindle Bull written by Loura Ingals actually predates the supposed Bull/Terrier cross. As well, small Mastiff type war dogs like Becerrillo and Bruno predate the English Bulldog, and were of the Cuban Bloodhound type (Alano/Lebrel aka cattle dog). In the 1970s, JD Johnson and Alan Scott started the breed – American Bulldog, of which, the original standard called for a prefrence of red brindle. JD Johnson made the idle speculation that “his breed” (now called the Johnson American Bulldog) was the pure breed of England with no Terrier in it. This misconcecption has been repeted by countless others which makes it seem well documented. Reality check – the Johnson American Bulldog will most likely die from the hot Southern sun before actually pinning a bull, much less fight a pack of wild dogs (as claimmed by Mr Johnson). On the other hand, smaller Cur breeds and Bulldogs are still used by cattlemen to round up and pin wayward cattle. The larger type Bulldogs are used mainly as Estate Guards (Shepherd Mastiffs), though will pin the unruly farm bull.
Since such dogs had been interbred since ancient times, the determination of correct type is only made by its ability to fight. Sad, but true, only by fighting can one know if his stock is pure Mastiff. Thus, Pitmen in USA seperate the Bulldog (small Mastiff) from the Cur (Drovers Dog) in the Pits. Those of us unwilling to fight our Bulldogs in the Pits, should not make excuses for the lack of testing, but rather admit the truth – and give respect – if we agree with it or not. It is still the truth. (I look forward to the day when DNA testing will replace Pit/Arena testing)
The breed name, American Bulldog, originated in the 1970s as the American Pit Bull Dog, and in 1984, dropped the word Pit. While the breed originated as a stock dog of cattle and guardian of the farm – few specimens today have the temperment or build required for such work. Alan Scott will tell you the truth, as he will admit his stock was crossed with Catch Dogs (for the sport of hunting wild boar). As seen in the video, the Carr White English (an old family line much older than JD Johnson and Alan Scott) is not so suitable on the hunt – as it is a Shepherds Mastiff or Estate Guard type. The very name White English (while not really English) was written in the 1870s – long before the APBT of 1898. This is not to imply the APBT was developed from the White English or Brindle Bull, but that these breeds developed along the same lines. People have been pit fighting Bulldogs in South USA since Spain arrived.
Have you seen this painting of very modern, show-bred Mastini depicted fighting animals in gladiator arenas?
Ridiculous.
I’ve seen worse ones, but yeah that’s pretty bad.