Canis lupus hominis

Perfect carousels

February 18, 2013 by retrieverman

Source.

Posted in golden retriever | Tagged carousel, golden retriever | 16 Comments

16 Responses

1. on February 18, 2013 at 7:38 pm Pai

   Oh man, a carousel made up all of dog breeds in this style would be amazing!

   
   
   • on February 18, 2013 at 7:40 pm retrieverman

     Well, your dogs already look like little horses, so they would be perfect for it.

     
     
     • on February 19, 2013 at 12:35 am Pai

       I know! :D

       
       
   • on February 19, 2013 at 5:18 am bearcoatpei

     This is the man’s website. Not quite a full carousel, but beautiful nontheless.

     http://www.timracer.com/

     
     
     • on February 19, 2013 at 5:20 am bearcoatpei

       p.s. the back carving is a golden retriever x chow chow.

       
       
       • on February 19, 2013 at 7:38 am retrieverman

         It’s hard to tell. Often people get a golden retriever with a black spot on the tongue, which is a somatic mutation, and they assume it’s a chow cross. The one in the front is an obvious working type golden retriever.

         
         
         • on February 19, 2013 at 11:22 am massugu

           That brings up something I was pondering this morning as I hiked out in the rain and sleet.

           My understanding of coloration in dogs is almost non-existent–especially when compared to many on this list (I’m having enough trouble keeping up with the latest theories on human genetics as it applies to migration and ethnicity w/o going there as well.).

           But anyway, it occurred to me to wonder if anybody has pinpointed the genetic source of the blue tongue coloration in some Asian breeds of dog and, if so, whether they have looked for that trait and/or genetic signature in living and/or extinct Asian subspecies of wolves? It seems to me that that would be another telling datum in our pursuit of pinpointing the genetic roots of domestic dogs.

           
           
           • on February 23, 2013 at 8:13 am bearcoatpei

             Colour genetics in dogs hurts my head. Especially in shar-pei as you they come in every colour except white and just because your dog looks one colour doesn’t mean it’s genetically that colour. My bearcoat started off as an apricot dilute and she’s gradually turned into an isabella dilute as she’s got older.

             I don’t know if the research has been done. Google doesn’t seem to think it has anyway. But that’s a brilliant idea to look for such a gene in wolf populations. You think straighter than me as I was out with the bearcoat, pondering if it’s the same gene in polar bear tongues, if grizzlies get tongue spots and what colour is a grolar’s tongue. I don’t really fancy doing a hands on survey – I’m no Timothy Treadwell.

             
             
             • on February 23, 2013 at 11:43 am massugu

               “Colour genetics in dogs hurts my head.” Mine too, I think I’ll wait till somebody produces a flow-chart type diagram (Boolean logic) of the process–something that I can follow logically (anybody know of one?).

               Thanks, it seems logical to me as well to look for genetic determinants in relict and/or extinct Asian wolf populations. Just as a link for small size in domestic dogs can be found in South Asian/Arabian wolves, so too might the mouth coloration be linked to Eastern/Northern Asian wolves (or perhaps to wolves elsewhere.) Too, assuming some domestic dog out-crossing into endemic Asian wolf populations (as is known to have happened elsewhere), one would expect to find the mouth color mutation or genetic markers for same in at least some Asian wolves.

               Another thought occurs to me, as these Asian breeds become more popular in N. America, we may see the mutation cross over to various N. American coyote populations, much has happened w/ the “white” coyotes in N.S.

               I can’t think of any particular survival value to having a dark mouth, but since the mutation doesn’t appear to have any negative survival impact (as far as we know anyway), I’d expect these markers to persist. Thus I’m surprised there hasn’t more done to look for the source of this unusual pigmentation.

               
               
         • on February 21, 2013 at 2:08 pm bearcoatpei

           Looking at the head/ears, I can see chow ancestry being quite possible. He is an excellent carver and the stop, brow, high earset, the way the muzzle runs down into the nose leather and the way the whiskers are rendered both give the muzzle a slightly padded look that is very chowlike. Sadly, we have no photo of the original dog to compare as I’m sure Cali is a beauty.

           I know what you mean about the black spots on tongues though. Quite a few breeds are known to have individuals with the occasional black tongue spot. I’ve personally seen them in Akitas, Labs, Goldens, GSDs and newfiels plusa couple of crosses with no chow or shar-pei blood. I think the only difference is the trait has been specifically bred for in two breeds for quite a long time and bred away from in the others.

           
           
           • on February 22, 2013 at 8:09 pm kittenz

             Lots of GSDs have black spots on the tongue, but it’s not the same coloration as the black tongue of a chpw or shar pei. My sister had a solid black female GSD whose entire palate was jet black & so was much
             of her tongue. But it wasn’t the type of suffused coloring you see in chows’ tongues; it was more like a large black patch that just happened to cover about half of her tongue. Her mother was also black & also had a black palate & tongue spots.

             
             
             • on February 23, 2013 at 8:01 am bearcoatpei

               You should see the inner mouth and tongue of most of the pigmented cream shar-pei. They are literally as black as coal. I’ve never seen a darker tongue on even a genuine BB black dog. The colour of tongues in chows and shar-pei can vary enormously in hue from dog to dog and even due to age or if the dog is hot. Due to the variance in coat colours, shar-pei can have a tongue ranging from coal black, inky purple, slate blue, lavender and a lilac that’s almost pink. The “flowered” (particolour) shar-pei have spotted tongues rather than solid and most chow or shar-pei crosses have spotted tongues rather than solid.

               Was your sister’s dog from a line known for tongue spots? I know some GSD breeders swear black spots indicate a line with good pigmentation. I don’t think anybody has done the research as of yet, so who knows if it’s the same or different genes coming into play.

               I thought you might enjoy this link with lots of spotted tongues of all breeds/mutts.

               http://www.columbusdogconnection.com/BlackTongueDebate.htm

               
               
               • on February 23, 2013 at 10:43 am kittenz

                 I’ve heard that too, that dogs with black palates or black spots on the tongue have better pigmentation. I guess it depends on one’s definition of “better pigmentation”. I don’t think it has anything to do with it. I have seen GSDs of all hues with spots on the tongue, from dark-pigmented whites to solid blacks and almost everything in between. I don’t know of any research into it. More GSDs have dark palates than spotted tongues, almost all of them in fact. So I don’t know if black spots on the tongue are related to dark palate at all, either. I fostered a rescue GSD once who was a light reddish color with pale whitish legs, grayish saddle & “snow nose”, indications of color paling, and he had black spots on his tongue. So I think that different genes must determine spotting on the tongue. I’m not a geneticist though, just a dedicated observer.

                 I’ve noticed in shar peis and chows that often, dogs with very pale coats have very dark mouths & tongues. Part of that could be perception, I suppose; the contrast between the dark mouth and light coat seems more pronounced. But you’ll see (for instance), an almost white cream-colored chow with very dark, purplish-black mouth and tongue, and another, very dark red, where the tongue is blue or even pinkish in the middle. Most of the solid black shar peis and chows I’ve known have had very dark mouths, but I knew one black shar pei who developed vitiligo. Over a surprisingly short time, a couple of years or so, her mucous membranes lost color and turned a grayish-pink & then became completely pink.

                 I’ve often wondered myself where the blue’black/purple tongue coloration of chows and related breeds originated. It had to come from somewhere, even if it was a spontaneous mutation. The breeds themselves are ancient, though not in the form we know them today. Do you know whether any ancient accounts mention the dark tongues?

                 
                 
                 • on February 24, 2013 at 7:26 am bearcoatpei

                   Sadly, most of China’s written history went up in smoke at one time or another. There is very little recorded history of shar-pei as they’ve always been a multi purpose peasant’s dog so of no great importance to record keepers. The chow is mentioned and depicted for well over 2000 years with some pottery tomb dogs from the Han Dynasty that look strikingly like smooth chows. Mind you, shar-pei and akita enthusiasts try to pass the same sculptures off as their breed too – http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ggdaw5nT6xE/UIghbhC2kII/AAAAAAAABW4/MaJFKXV3JCg/s1600/Mastiff+Pl+64+2.jpg Shame they didn’t pop a strategic splot of blue glaze on it to save future argument – he-he!

                   The problem is that a lot of the books on the chow are from a few decades back, hardly objective, often anecdotal, give no references and are clearly mixing up chow chows with Tibetan mastiffs and their Mongolian cousin the banhar in at least one book I have to hand. The aforementioned book, first published in 1953, claims there are constant references to what the Chinese call the Tartar dog that records they look like a lion with a black tongue as far back as 1100 BC and mentions something called the Annals of Han in 100 BC which mentions importing these Tartar dogs for hunting. Given the other wildly inaccurate (being used to guard monasteries in Tibet) and sometimes laughable assertions (they are part of the bear family) in that particular book, it’s to be taken with a whole salt cellar.

                   The early mentions of chow chows in English books are slightly more credible. There is mention of someone importing two dogs of the “Chinese breed of Canton such as are fattened up to eat” and a vivd description of their straight hind legs, pricked ears, bristly fur and blue tongues. The name chow chow hadn’t been given to the breed yet as that was back in 1780. So it was well known and desirable in China at that time – some say the dogs with blue tongues were extra tasty and their meat more expensive! Earlier than that, it was reputedly valued by the Chinese, along with their scowl and general leonine appearance, for scaring away evil spirits. There’s also supposedly an ancient fable about the chow being the dog that licked up the pieces of sky dropped when the earth was being made and the sky was being set in place/painted. Another one that could have been made up by an early Western chow breeder.

                   The landrace that is the ancestor of chows and shar-pei seems to be a particularly ancient one both by word of mouth and DNA. But all we really know is somewhere along the line, dogs were born with blotches of melanin on their tongues and people saw it as desirable and selectively bred for it. For all we know, in the West it may have been just as prevalent, but seen as undesirable and the hapless dogs ended up being culled.

                   
                   
         • on February 22, 2013 at 8:15 pm kittenz

           The dog in the back is a dog named Cali that is a chow/retriever mix. It was commissioned by Cali’s owner. The carving in the front looks like a golden to me, too.

           
           
2. on February 19, 2013 at 10:38 am Jessica

   I just imagined Scottie sitting on the one in front going “Wheeeee!”

   
   

Comments are closed.