These images come from James Watson’s The Dog Book (1906):
These are very nice looking dogs. They look like they can tear through thickest cover and scent the most wily of birds.
As noted earlier, I think of Clumbers are actually a strain of old English land spaniel. Throughout the art of the eighteenth and early nineteenth century, we see the odd depiction of a relatively large, robust spaniel that is typically red and white.
Although traditional accounts say this breed is derived from some strain of flushing French spaniel, I think it is more likely that this dog is a surviving strain of this old red and white spaniel.
I don’t have any genetic evidence to prove this, but I do have artwork that is strangely beguiling:
Also from Watson's "The Dog Book."
France has no tradition of flushing spaniels. All of its “epagneul” breeds are index dogs, including the closest thing France has to a water spaniel, the Epagneul Pont-Audemer.
The Dukes of Newcastle never provided the detailed pedigrees of their dogs. After all, this breed’s origins appear to be in the latter part of the eighteenth century, and such records, if they existed, are probably lost.
The story that these dogs are derived from the dogs belonging to the Duc de Noailles seems a bit like the story that goldens are derived from Russian circus dogs. It is vaguely possible, but it seems a bit incongruous with our knowledge of dog society at the time.
I’m not saying this theory is wrong, but I think we have to consider the possibility that this is an old form of English land spaniel. It seems to fit the historical depictions of red and white spaniels.
But maybe the French origins theory is correct.
We just need more evidence.
I found the extra twenty pounds. It’s in the skin on the head. Download the illustrated standard from the Clumber Club site and you will see what I mean.
And we all know all that loose skin is very useful when you’re running in thorny cover…
I am really curious as the weight of the loose skin. When people lose a good deal of weight and have loose skin, they can have it removed, and it’s quite heavy, even without fat in it. I’d also like to see some studies on how movement is affected in a breed with lots of extra skin, like those Neos. Is it like trying to run while wearing a backpack?
I know of a woman who had gastric bypass and lost a lot of weight. She had a lot of loose skin, and we always said they cut it off her and made car seats out of it.
got me laughing…
Is this a kinda nigger joke or what?
As the owner of a gun dog, reading that doc blows my mind. It says eye haw is REQUIRED.
They then continue with all sorts of puffery about how Clumbers are designed to bust through cover to find game that lighter flushing dogs can’t get to.
It’s the equivalent to requiring that a 4×4 have two fragile, moist, exposed areas under each headlight that painfully blind the driver whenever touched by brush or debris. (analogies are not my strong suit, but you get my drift).
Wouldn’t a harsher coat do a better job protecting a dog than copious amounts of flesh hanging off the body? I mean, really.
It’s interesting, but there are no griffon-coated spaniels. Long hair with an undercoat is pretty good protection from the thorns, though it does tend to take the undergrowth a bit with it.
The best analysis on retriever coat that I’ve seen comes from Rawdon Lee: https://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2011/01/07/rawdon-lee-on-the-importance-of-a-wavy-coat/
Oh, there are griffon coated spaniels! See, Griffons were old European bird dogs, like the Italian Spinone or the extinct Russian Setter.
See also http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=griffin
My JRT has a much harsher coat than my spaniel, yet he’s the one who gets ripped to shreds when they go through thorny brush. My spaniel’s appropriate coat type and looser skin seems to do wonders for protecting him when running through thick undergrowth. Not once has he ever come back scratched, though he does come back with quite a few thorns caught on his feathering, but better stuck in his hair than in his skin.
Maybe the secret of the loose and thick skin is that it is more flexible. It kinda streches and so doesn’t get wounded easily.
Well, we might get the proper answer from a techical engineer.
I don’t believe the French theory. I see the Clumber as another white-lemon-spotted, heavy-built Old English Setter – crossed with a more compact and low-legged spaniel.
Like Ranger?
Yes. That’s a very good possibility.